muvluvfandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:AMERICA/@comment-108.194.25.40-20151203101652/@comment-108.194.25.40-20151204042557
Just as a side note, I'm ignoring everything other than the original Muv-Luv Unlimited/Alternative games; I haven't played/read The Day After and I also don't think it has the same writer (correct me if I'm wrong about this though), so it isn't really relevant to my point of the original games' writer being at least somewhat right-wing/nationalistic. So the fact that other shogunate houses may be portrayed poorly in other Muv-Luv media doesn't really factor into what I'm saying. I also want to make it clear that I really liked both games; if anything, this bugs me more *because* the rest of the games were so strong. While you're correct in the sense that the things you said can be inferred from the setting (for example, the fact that Japan being in a bad situation could possibly be attributed to the inefficiency of its system of government), this does not automatically mean that the game/writers aren't fetishizing the shogun and nationalistic sentiment. While it is clear that the current system of government is far from ideal, very little, if any, blame for this seems to be placed on the shogun/shogunate. If anything, it seems implied that one of the biggest problems is the fact that the shogun doesn't have *more* influence; for example consider the fact that other (again, backstabbing/corrupt) elements were responsible for the shogun's message to stop the conflict not reaching Sagiri. It was also all but explicitly stated that Sagiri is 100% correct in his beliefs about the civilian government being corrupt and only wrong in the actions he chose to enact change. So while the Imperial Japan of the game, as a whole, isn't portrayed as some Force of Good (though I would definitely argue that it's portrayed as having better intentions than the US), the actual Imperial/royal aspects of it are never shown to be in the wrong. It is always the civilian/non-royal government that is responsible for the country doing dumb/bad things, and the few representatives of the royalty that we are shown (Meiya, Yuuhi, and sort of Tsukuyomi as a close retainer) are all portrayed as downright paragons of virtue. Like, I literally don't think it's possible to portray a character in a more positive light than those characters are portrayed. Regarding the nobles being hard to sympathize with, while I agree about Meiya/Yuuhi being driven by a kind of silly/out-dated sense of honor, the game itself does nothing to really tell us this is the case. We are repeatedly (explicitly!) told that Yuuhi and Meiya are both individuals that Takeru should strive towards emulating. Part of Takeru's character arc is realizing that they're correct and his initial views were misguided. While we as readers may disagree with some of what they say and do, the game itself chose to never directly disagree (either explicitly or through directly connecting their beliefs/actions with a downside) with their beliefs. We're also repeatedly told what a heavy burden it is for Yuuhi/Meiya to have to support the country/citizens; while I'm sure that's true, I'm also pretty damned sure that your average Japanese citizen - who likely lives in poverty - has things a hell of a lot worse than they do. To connect this with something that shows up in a lot of media (not just Japanese), I generally really dislike the whole "super honorable royalty earnestedly trying to help the citizens" trope. While it's not impossible for good examples of unelected royalty to exist, a *truly* good King/Queen/Emperor/Shogun/whatever would seek to abolish the system of unelected royalty and acknowledge that royal people do not actually come from a superior bloodline or whatever. While I can tolerate this trope in more light-hearted media, it bugs me more in Unlimited/Alternative because those games are pretty serious and seem to be attempting to address a number of philosophical/political questions. Regarding the portrayal of the US, I have no problem at all and pretty much agree with what you said. I only have a problem with the royal leadership of Imperial Japan (and really the country as a whole even after considering the bad elements of their civilian/elected government) being portrayed in a vastly more positive light relative to the US. If you want to write a realistic story where governments are pragmatic and act in their own self interests, you have to apply that to all countries; you can't also have the symbol of one country (that just happens to be your own) be the very image of virtue and honor. Especially when the real-life version of Imperial Japan was almost as evil as you can get. And, again, this really can't be ignored. The fact that the Imperial Japan of the Muv-Luv games is not portrayed as being evil does not change the fact that real-life Imperial Japan has almost as much historical baggage as Nazi Germany. As with my previous analogy, it's like writing a story where Nazi Germany continued to the present day but stopped being as evil. Sure, someone can write a story like that, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think that it says something about the writers' political views. This is especially true when you consider the views of actual, real-life right-wing people in current Japan, where Imperial Japan's crimes are heavily understated (if not outright ignored) and it is often put on a pedestal relative to present-day Japan. While not nearly as exteme as the Nazi Germany analogy (since many Japanese are ignored about their own country's past actions), it's still bad for the same reasons.